I have the pleasure of introducing you to the fabulous Sarah Dionne - life coach, newsletter expert, retired burlesque dancer, and gorgeous model! You’ll see her around the Belladonna socials and website, modelling our patterns. She has to have one of the most interesting life stories (honestly, I can’t wait for her biography to be published). I asked her recently if she would be willing to be interviewed, and she was able to carve time out of her busy schedule to chat with me about the fashion industry and being a plus-size model.
Emily: What term do you prefer? Is “plus-size” a term you identify with, or is there something else that resonates better?
Sarah: Plus-size. I’ve reclaimed the word fat - I use the word fat for myself. I use both of those.
E: How has the industry's perception of plus-size models changed since you started?
S: The industry has changed quite a bit. Years ago, I modelled for Penningtons. When you would look at websites - even websites for stores like Penningtons or Addition ELLE, their “plus-size” models were still, you know, just barely plus-size - like a size 14. Which, from the perspective of someone who wears a 26 or a 30, doesn’t feel terribly plus-size, and then even you would see, like, probably a size 12 model on there.
You certainly weren’t seeing size 24 or 26. Back then, I weighed 400 pounds, and there was no representation for my size at 400-450 pounds. Nowadays, there are lots of plus-size models. There’s more of a focus on healthy bodies, as opposed to size and weight - that your body, your health, is not based on your thinness.
E: What is the most rewarding part of modelling?
S: The most rewarding part (other than getting free clothes because I do like me some new clothes, haha!) - the most rewarding part is representation. I love the fact that I get to represent.
I love the fact that I get to show other female-identifying people this is what this size will look like on their body, as opposed to looking at an article of clothing or at a pattern or something and seeing it on a standard-sized body and having to guess, “OK, what is that gonna look like on me?”
“My butt is 10 times the size of hers, right? How is that gonna fit on me?” I see how that looks with that little bit of cleavage, but the minute it’s gonna go on mine - Holy boobs, Batman!
Right now, I have to guess how something is going to look on me. But if people can see me modelling something, there’s no guesswork. So it’s that representation that makes all the difference for me.
E: What is the most challenging?
S: If you’re modelling clothing that is not made for you, if it’s off the rack or if it is from somewhere that doesn’t traditionally focus on plus-size clothing.
Old Navy has plus sizes. Reitmans as well, because it’s attached to Addition ELLE. But their clothing is traditionally for the smaller sizes, not plus size (although they do carry some). But they haven’t increased their sizes based on how bodies grow to be plus-size. The body doesn’t increase exactly the same all over your body when you’re plus-size. So, modelling something off the rack from a place that isn’t focused on plus-size clothing means the clothing is often a lot less flattering, because they’ll just add inches and things will get wider where they shouldn’t be wider or longer where they shouldn't be longer. That’s not how humans are built, and so that would be the most challenging part of modelling.
It’s also the best part of modelling for a pattern designer such as Belladonna Patterns. You have a heavy focus on making sure that your patterns are created in such a way that it doesn’t matter what size you are - it’s going to fit your body. You understand that if you’re a plus-size person, it doesn’t mean that all of your inches have increased exactly the same in your arms, your bust, your hips, your waist, your bottom, your legs, your height, everything. So your patterns are adjustable and graded to fit all bodies.
E: What do you wish people knew about plus-size modelling?
S: That it’s a thing! That people actually want to see plus-size models! And that there needs to be more of it. Start at size 18 - sizing doesn’t start and end at size 12 or 14. It starts at 18.
And that’s some real plus-size modelling; 18 and up. Honestly, get someone who’s wearing a size 22, 26, 30 - that’s plus size modelling. Those are the people who are buying your clothes. Someone who is a size 14 isn’t shopping at Penningtons. They’re shopping at Old Navy. They’re shopping at the Gap.
I would also like people to realize that plus-size models, actors, musicians, dancers, whatever, are not promoting unhealthy lifestyles, obesity, or anything else. Just because someone is a plus-size person does not automatically make them unhealthy in any way, shape, or form. An example that I pull from all the time is a dancer named Reagan Chastain, who’s been on Broadway, has won several dance competitions, and she’s plus-size. Do you have any idea how incredibly healthy and fit you have to be to pull that off? Don’t tell me she promotes obesity and an unhealthy lifestyle - that woman is a machine! And the number of people that are out there that are incredibly unhealthy, not exercising, not eating well, and not plus-size. You're gonna tell me that these people are healthier than a plus-size dancer just because they’re smaller? I don’t buy it.
E: How does it feel to see yourself represented in campaigns and fashion shows?
S: It feels really good. It feels like society is maybe finally catching up. I know that it makes a huge difference for me when I’m trying to shop online.
I hate shopping online, but so much of the world has now moved online, especially after the pandemic. Honestly, I only shop at places that show people who look like me now. So if shops don’t have representation on their website, I don’t shop there. Because there’s just been way too many times that I’ve seen how cute something looks, or seen something that I’ve really liked on a skinny body, ordered it, and then got it home, and I’ve gone, “Wow! This was a mistake!”
So, unless I can see a representation of my body on their website in a particular article of clothing, I don’t shop there.
E: In your experience, how does representation in fashion affect the average consumer's self-perception and confidence?
S: It doesn’t matter if it’s in fashion, if it’s in culture, social media, politics - it doesn’t matter where the representation is. If you see yourself represented, you feel validated and like you are a whole person. You feel seen. You feel like you matter - like someone out there sees you and is thinking of you, and that you’re important. It doesn't matter whether you’re a plus-size person, a minority, LGBTQ - seeing yourself represented means that other people are like you. The fact that the fashion industry has taken so long to catch up, like, is bananas! There have been plus-size people since humans became a thing on the planet.
Marilyn Monroe was a plus-size person by today’s standards. She wasn’t fat by any stretch of imagination, but she was curvy. If she were alive today, she would be considered plus-size. When she was alive, she was a sex symbol. She was what women aspired to be, and somewhere along the line, we decided that people who looked like Marilyn Monroe were fat. Now we’re finally coming back around. The fashion industry is one of those very, very finite few things that is one step forward, three steps back, kind of thing. Hopefully, we’ll keep seeing forward momentum.
E: When you shop for clothes, what challenges do you still encounter in terms of sizing, fit, and style options?
S: Oh, there are significantly fewer options out there for plus-size clothing. You can’t go to the mall and walk into any store and try on clothes. Clothes are not made across the board for plus-size people. If a plus-size person walks into just any random store, it is unsurprising to be asked, “Who are you shopping for today?”, not “How can I help you?”, or “What are you looking for?”, which is what you hear when you go into a store specifically for plus-size people.
And that is what my oldest child hears because they’re not plus-sized, and my sister hears because she’s also not plus-sized. And that is really hard to hear because I’m shopping for myself. Why would you even ask that question? Maybe you sell something I can fit into - maybe - I’m not gonna fit into your pants, but maybe I’ll fit into your tops. Maybe you sell socks that I really, really like. I don’t know. Why are you making assumptions?
Being really limited to the three or four stores that sell plus-size clothing compared to 30 others that sell sizes 0 to 14 - it’s difficult. That makes it hard on your self-esteem. Because it means that you have significantly less selection.
On top of that, there’s no standardized sizing across all companies. One person, size 24, might not be size 24 in the next store. They might be a size 22 or a size 18. Of course, you can take your measurements. But if you’re shopping online… It makes shopping online a little bit more difficult. You think, “OK, I’m generally a size 18”, and so you go in and you try on a size 18, or you order a size 18, but because nothing is standardized, you end up finding out that at this particular store, a size 18 is way too small. And actually, you have to wear a size 22, or you have to wear a size 24. And that can be really, really hard on the self-esteem, because society has attached a stigma to anyone who wears a size 22, or a size 24, or a size 30.
If you go into a store and their sizes are different than another stores, and the person that’s working there knows the clothes really, really well, and they look at you, and they’re like, “yeah, you’re about a size 26”, and in your mind, the other clothes you have are a size 18. That’s pretty hard to be told now you’re not an 18. You know, a real self-confidence boost! I’m gonna go into your change room and have a little cry now! I mean, it’s great when it works the opposite way, when you walk in thinking you’re a size 26, and they’re like, “No, you’re a size 18.” That’s fantastic, but it’s very rare.
E: What changes would you like to see brands make to improve the clothing shopping experience for plus-size individuals?
S: I think all brands should move to a focus on inclusivity. How about we quit stopping our sizes at size 12 or 14? How about we shift our focus to the larger people because that makes up the higher percentage of society nowadays? Also, how about we see more plus-size models - more representation? If brands are only gonna show a garment on one person, how about it being a larger person than a smaller person? And, I mean, ideally, there would just be a standardized size across everything - clothing - everything would just be standardized. But I mean, that’s probably pretty much an impossibility, but wishful thinking
E: Can you share a specific instance where you felt truly represented and celebrated by a brand or collection?
S: I took my kids to Disneyland in 2007, 2008, something like that, and I had the chance to go to Torrid. Remember, they weren’t in Canada yet, and there weren’t very many across the states either, and online shopping was not a big thing at this point yet. But I had the chance to go into Torrid, and I was a burlesque dancer at the time - a plus-size burlesque dancer - and not only did they have really, really nice, fashionable clothes that fit me, but they also had sexy clothes that I could wear when I was doing burlesque. Before the show and after the show, I would be out in the crowd schmoozing, but I had never owned the sexy black little dress that everybody has in their closet.
I never owned anything like that because they don’t make stuff like that for people my size. I was able to get that at Torrid, and it was amazing. They also had thigh-high leather, high-heeled boots, and everyone in my burlesque troop had thigh-high boots. It was one of the costume pieces for one of our group routines, and I wasn’t able to participate because there was no thigh-high boot that would fit my massive, massive legs. Like, I have gams that just don’t stop!
And I walked out of Torrid with clothes that were incredibly flattering, stylish, and fit my body. A little black dress that was sexy as anything, and thigh-high leather boots - like it was life-changing. It was a shopping experience that I will never forget. All the people who were working there looked like me. I felt so seen and represented. I will never ever forget that shopping experience.
E: Why is it so important for fashion to be inclusive of all body types?
S: Because all body types have to wear clothes, and the people who have body types that are outside of society's definition of “typical” or “normal” (whether it be plus size or very petite), we still have to wear clothes - and we still want to look good in those clothes.
We still wanna look fashionable in those clothes, so it’s important for clothing companies and manufacturers in the fashion industry to remember that we exist, and that we also are putting money into their pockets, so show us as well. We aren’t second-rate citizens. We’re not second-class. We are just as important as the straight-sized people. If you take a look at statistics, sizes 10 to 14, and even 16, are actually what is “normal” now. So the clothing and fashion industry needs to rethink what their version of “normal” is.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s clothing, the LGBTQ community, race, creed, or religion; shouldn’t inclusivity just be given at this point? Why is it even a question? Why does it even need to be a discussion?
E: Can you explain what it feels like when you wear something that represents how you see yourself?
S: It makes such a difference. I’ll give an example. I have a coat that was made specifically for me by Emily [Charm Pattern’s Princess Coat].
When I put on this coat, the level of self-confidence I have is through the roof. Who I become on the outside and on the inside is so different than who I am normally. I have agoraphobia, and it can get very limiting, and so there are days when I have responsibilities outside my house - outside in the world. I have to go to the bank. I have to go get groceries. I have to go model for Belladonna Patterns, but my agoraphobia wants to keep me inside. The world is too scary. I put on this coat, and nothing can stop me. I am the most confident, powerful woman that has ever walked the Earth because of how good this coat makes me look.
For the vast majority of us, especially as plus-size people, what we wear is not about other people; it’s about how we feel and how we think we look. It’s about our perception of ourselves, and so when we find articles of clothing that fit us the way they should, and they make us look good, it changes everything.
It takes you from feeling like a second-class citizen who doesn’t deserve love. That doesn’t deserve affection - that feels worthless to, “I am powerful. I can do anything. I deserve the best of the best. I deserve to be loved and cared for. I deserve everything.” That transformation is so important.
Especially for people who get treated as less than - which, unfortunately, people who are plus size still get discriminated against. Unfortunately, fat phobia is still a thing.
I’ve lost 250 pounds, and I am still a plus-size person. But even losing that amount of weight, the way I was treated then, compared to the way I’m treated now, is so vastly different. People will open doors for me, but when I was 450 pounds, they were closed doors in my face. When I was 450 pounds, people didn’t even see me, and they would walk directly into me. I was 450 pounds. How do you miss that on the street? Can’t miss me, but people would not move out of the way for me. People would just slam right into me and then get angry that I didn’t move out of the way for them. I was hauling two kids. You can walk around me, dude!
Fat phobia is still such a big thing that having clothing that makes you feel powerful and makes you look in the mirror and feel like you have worth is so, so important. When you leave your house, there is a very, very good chance that someone out there is going to make you feel worthless, so you need to have your armour on. And that’s what good clothes are. It’s your armour.
Thank you so much, Sarah, for taking part in this interview! 💕It was so insightful and inspiring. Please follow Sarah on her Instagram @coachsarahd and keep an eye out for her on Belladonna, representing all our cottagecore and witchy looks!
